Random NBA Thoughts

Discussion in 'Know Your Enemy' started by Quazza, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. Money

    Money NBA All-Star

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    Been meaning to catch a Pacers game for Warren’s performance.

    Dame got 61 yesterday
     
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  2. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    The Kings’ draft resume of the 2010’s looks eerily similar to the Warriors of the late 90s/early 2000s.

    2011 - 7th overall. Traded down to 10th for Jimmer Fredette. Missed out on Klay and Kawhi.

    2012 - 5th overall. Went with Thomas Robinson over Lillard.

    2013 - 7th overall. Took Ben McLemore. Missed CJ McCollum, Steven Adams, Giannis, Gobert.

    2014 - 8th overall. Drafted Nik Stauskas. Missed Lavine, Warren, Nurkic. Fortunately, landed the rights to Bogdanovic two years later by trading Marquese Chriss. But will Bogdan re-sign?

    2015 - 6th overall. Drafted Willie Cauley-Stein. Missed Myles Turner, Devin Booker.

    2017 - 5th overall. Drafted Fox. Swapped picks with Philly who had 3rd overall (Jayson Tatum).

    2018 - 2nd overall. Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic
     
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  3. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    Thanks for the breakdown xbay! Really explains why the Kings have struggled for a long time.
     
  4. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    I typed that out not knowing Vivek Renadive fired Vlade, ironically. Joe Dumars will be taking over for the interim. Luke Walton is safe, for now, only because they have to continue paying Divac through 2022 and the idea of paying a fired Divac and Walton and a new coach during a pandemic is not ideal financially.

    Sacramento's got a lot of work to do.

    Fox and Bogdanovic are due for extensions and they're going to get paid. Buddy Hield got paid last year and he's not a reserve/6th man. HB is getting paid like a top guy but his production is more of a 4th guy. Bagley is made of glass. Don't know how they'll do it, but man, those draft misses will haunt them for a decade unless they make some transactions that finally work in their favor.
     
  5. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Some of those picks are good ones. Fox has been great, when healthy. Bagley will surely have a good career, again, if healthy (and they were in a complicated spot knowing Luka didn't want to play for them... I mean, I still would have taken Luka, but still, I understand why they went for Bagley). Their record has been atrocious, but there's some talent to work with in that roster.

    Dumars is the interim GM, but I think it's likely that he's gonna have that interim title removed soon and keep the job.

    In other news, the Bulls have fired the worst coach of the NBA in Jim Boylen. He might know a lot about basketball and even be a good assistant, but he lost the locker-room so quickly that never had a chance to achieve anything. Chicago is fully rebuilding, and they have some pieces there. It's going to be interesting to see what they do in this coaching search.
     
  6. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    I agree, Fox is a good talent. He’s got incredible agility for starters. And the jury’s still out on Bagley, who’s just had an unfortunate start much like Curry. But when you’re in that position, do you draft for need or BPA and figure it out later? Either way, Fox/Bagley will always be compared to Luka. We’ll see what happens to both parties over the next 5 years. But of course, you can only succeed as much as the roster constructed around your core... so the Kings need to figure out this HB/Hield/Bogdanovic situation. And the Mavs need to find another wing who can score and handle the rock to take pressure off Doncic like a Bradley Beal.

    As for Boylen... well, we all saw that coming. They have some decent, young talent. Wendell Carter, Coby White, Tomas Satoransky, Otto Porter Jr. They need to find a guy who can really maximize all that youth.
     
  7. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    The worst thing they did was signing mediocre guys to big contracts, like Harrison Barnes. Bogdanovic is so much better than him, but now that Barnes is signed long term, can you afford to sign Fox, Hield and Bogdanovic long term? (Hield is already signed, but you get the point).

    Also signed/traded for other guys with huge deals. Cory Joseph has two more years over $12 million per year, for god's sake...

    I think they have to extend Bogdanovic, try to get rid of guys like Joseph, Jabari Parker and Barnes (easier said than done), and build around Fox, Bogdanovic and Bagley. I'm not sure about Hield, I like him as a player, but he's going to make over $20 million for the next four years...
     
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  8. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    And, as XBay announced a while back, Gentry is out in New Orleans.

    A damn shame...
     
  9. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    With the Pelicans, they should pursue Kenny Atkinson NOW. I get the Ty Lue connection. The Jason Kidd rumor is okay, but let’s be real, he’s had two failed shots at head coaching. Give another guy a shot. There’s a lot of promising assistants around the league. But Atkinson seems perfect for that roster.

    Heck, if the Nets don’t go with Jacque Vaughn... he’d be solid, too. But I’d love to see Mark Jackson there because well, how fun would that be? ;)
     
  10. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    I never liked Ty Lue's coaching style. I think he'd be a good assistant, but he's never gonna go back to that.

    Atkinson would be perfect for them, but he's going to be in high demand. Still, the Pels have young stars, a GREAT vet in Holiday, cap room (although they have to extend Ingram) and a ton of picks. It's one of the most enticing openings in the league.
     
  11. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    True, Chicago is the only other opening right now. Philly could open up, but their roster build just doesn’t mesh. I think they’d be in a better position if they kept Jimmy Butler instead of Tobias Harris and used the Al Horford money elsewhere. They should worry more about fixing the roster than the coaching.

    Houston is another potential opening. If they don’t make the Finals (and win it probably too), Fertitta is going to want to drop D’Antoni.

    So I don’t think NOLA has too many competitors for Atkinson. Coaching Harden aside, the Pelicans are the most attractive long term destination, I’d say.
     
  12. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Chicago can be a great place, too. And probably with less pressure than New Orleans right now. It's up to what the coach wants, a team that has a lot of assets already, but with more pressure and playing in the west, or a team that only has a few good pieces, lacking a true star, with more time to build in an easier conference. I can see both sides, I guess it depends on what each candidate is looking for.
     
  13. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Nate McMillan out as the Pacers coach. Not surprising, he's good enough for the regular season, but hasn't been able to make the Pacers competitive in the playoffs. That's gonna get old quick. It's a good opening, tho. It'll be interesting who's going to lead the Pacers from now on. Seems like they will be interested in Mike D'Antoni if the Rockets replace him, and that'd be quite a change for the Pacers style.


    And what matters most, the Raptors and Celtics are talking about boycotting the first game of their series in the wake of the Kenosha shooting of Jacob Blake.

    And I know this is going to be unpopular, but these guys need to shut the f*ck up and do their job. It's an awful situation, police brutality is a problem. But you are basketball players and get paid A TON of money to play basketball. If you want to fix things, give up all that money, retire and get into politics. Change the laws. And then there will be change. This is nothing, this means nothing, it's just whitewashing their image, like when Lebron, one of the most "outspoken and socially concerned" players in the league shut up and refused to talk about the riots in Hong Kong.

    If I'm the NBA and these guys decide to boycott a single game and not play, I'm eliminating both teams from the playoffs and suspending anybody involved for the whole next season.

    I know I'm gonna get called a lot of things. But if they're so concerned, get into politics and fix it. Because the only way to fix this awful issue is by changing the law and making police forces accountable. Everything else is just BS, and all demonstrations will achieve is get people injured or killed. Police forces have to pay for these acts, but they have to do that in a courthouse, one officer at a time. Once they realize they won't get away with it, that's when it'll be on its way to be fixed.

    Lately, there's a lot of BS going around from elite athletes nowadays, in every league and any sport.

    Alright, fire away and tell why I'm wrong...
     
  14. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    Heh, we were typing about the same situation at the same time. Our brains must be linked.

    An analogy that I feel is appropriate for this situation (and any situation that's tied to helping others) is when you're on an airplane and the flight attendants get to the part with what you need to do when air pressure drops in the cabin. What do they tell you do? Secure your mask on first before you go and help your child or anyone else.

    It takes money to make an impact. Period. The boycott of the Redskins name from FedEx, Nike and other major corporation sponsors worked because they are powerful organizations with deep pockets. There's just so much more options when you have money and these guys, as NBA players, getting paid seven figure salaries, have more options than people like you and I making five figure salaries. Invest it in the politicians that back your causes and values. Or jump into politics. Kneeling, talking about it during media sessions only took them so far. It was well intentioned, but it was limited. It was like Jay-Z said when he joined the NFL. What Kap did was great, but we have go beyond kneeling. Anyway, before I digress, I leave you with this quote from an interview Iguodala did with the NBA on "Group Economics" and why he chose it...

     
  15. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    The Bucks just boycotted their game. It makes sense since it happened right in their backyard. And they have a couple players who personally have been part of police mistreatment.

    All it takes is one. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a domino effect. If the Lakers boycott tonight, that will be the biggest domino.
     
  16. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Funding is more related to politics than economics, but it's all related, of course. There's a lot of truth to that quote.

    Still doesn't make any sense. If I'm a doctor, do I boycott my practice one day? If I'm a lawyer, do I? If I work any other job, can I do it, can I afford it? Why are they allowed to do so?

    F*ck these divas. If it were up to me, the Bucks would be automatically excluded from the playoffs, and everybody involved would be suspended for next year. I don't care if its the Bucks, Raptors, Heat or Warriors. It's a privilege nobody else has, and they're allowed to as they please.

    I'm getting more and more disconnected from sports these days, and it's because of this spoiled behavior, not only because of this, but with everything surrounding athletes in general. Players decide everything nowadays, contracts are worthless, they want to play with their "friends", if a coach says something they don't like (and the player is a big enough star), the coach is done... it's awful.

    I've got nothing against them making millions. If the revenue is there, and people pay gladly because of them, it's natural they get their share. But this is different. This is a bunch of spoiled kids doing whatever they want.

    And I'm not minimizing the awful problem with police brutality, racial profiling and all that. That's abhorrent and every police force should be held accountable when it happens. Let's not get things mixed up.
     
  17. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    And the NBA has decided that all games are suspended. Probably tomorrow's games, too. We'll see if the whole season.

    And I'm done with the NBA. If I don't go to work, I get fired. If a doctor doesn't go to work, he gets fired. If a guy that works for Starbucks doesn't go to work, he (or she) gets fired.

    Instead, these guys can do whatever the f*ck they want, with no consequences (the idea of the league is to re-schedule and play these games in a couple of games or so, if the players are willing to play, that is). Explain to me how that's fair. Explain to me why they care so much about this (once again, nothing against the bottom line, I'm not denying the problem or saying they have no right to send a message towards change, they have the same right everybody else has), but are not boycotting games because Nike (or any other brand) has sweatshops in Asia (and plenty of players make money from them, indirectly).

    Kap kneeled four years ago. Nothing has changed. It the issue more visible? Yeah, sure. But nothing has changed and nothing will unless the culprits are held accountable by criminal courts. And that doesn't happen by boycotting games. That happens by changing the law. It's not a matter of defunding nothing. Police forces will always have weapons and means to do it unless they know there will be consequences.

    You want to work towards that in the offseason? That's great. Get into politics, donate money to politicians that want to change it, as XBay said above. Be a vocal leader on demonstrations (not now, for fucks sake, there's still a fucking pandemic out there, but you get my point). Be visible with innocent victims. Not on game day, that's worthless. And you may not need to earn money again in your life, but the 12th guy on your roster will be really happy if the season gets suspended.

    In any case, not going to work sends a completely different message. And it's one they're going to regret. Because, in fact, moves like these are a big help in order to get Trump re-elected, imho.
     
  18. Money

    Money NBA All-Star

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    We should be careful not to underestimate the dire situation we find ourselves in here in America.

    People are fed up. Done playing games. We are involved in another civil war of sorts.
    I wish the NBA had backed up Kap from the begining.
    I remember that was near the Warriors 2015 championship year.

    Black people are DONE. Had enough. This isn’t about "not feeling like going to work today" bullshit.
    It’s THIS SHIT ENDS TODAY. and
    YOU NEED TO STOP KILLING US!!!!!!!!!!!! Please!!!!!

    Only in America. when black people cry out “please stop killing us!!” is it seen as a threat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  19. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, let's clear some points, and this is the last I'm going to talk about this topic...

    - First, I don't really care about the season, I've always said the bubble should never have happened and the NBA should have ended the season due to the pandemic.

    - Now, focusing on the matter at hand, this is not a boycott. It's a strike. A strike with no consequences, because the NBA is not going to do anything at all. A strike they are allowed to have even tho the CBA has a no-strike clause (which is stupid, in any case, but it's there and the players agreed to it back in the day). And that screams privilege. And it's a strike that's going to be infuriating for a lot of people, and that's going to be dangerous. Because it won't fix anything, it will make the breach even bigger.

    - Also, you can't be political whenever you feel like it. And that's what NBA players have been doing waaaaay too long. I had a lot of respect for Steve Kerr and his gun-control cause. I think he's right. I lost all that respect watching how he refused to address any other topics (see the Hong Kong riots, for example). When you do that, it's not about politics anymore, it's about promoting your agenda. This goes for Lebron and for the NBA as a whole, eager to get back to China as soon as possible because there's a lot of money in those contracts.

    - I understand black people are fed up. Of course they are. Then again, if you want change, you won't get it by rioting and acting like burning down the town is the way to go. Or ignoring your obligations. You're going to make the situation even worse. It's not fair, but it's what it is. Let's not kid ourselves. Which brings my next point: if you want order, equality and safety, you need to do it by following the law. If you riot and burn shit down, you're gonna get more people injured or, even worse, dead.

    - Do you want to make an impact in some way? You don't even have to get into politics to do so (although that's the only way in which you can do it directly, but follow me here and let's say you want to do it indirectly). Let's say Lebron, Kyrie, the whole Bucks roster and whoever else wants to do something... it's as easy as organizing a peaceful demonstration in the streets of DC, the whole NBA marching together (not everybody would go, but I guess an important number would, and also guys from other sports, male and female), alongside anybody else that wants to join, a march as huge as possible, and do it ONE WEEK BEFORE THE ELECTIONS. That's your message right there. That's something that will scream "we're fed up and we want change" and leave an image nobody would be able to erase. And do it peacefully. There's no f*cking privilege there, virtually no risk at all. And it sends a strong message that can't be denied. Much bigger than this.

    This? This means nothing. In fact, it can hurt more than help (look for reactions in social media, you go from people supporting them to LOTS of people talking about spoiled brats and moving away from the NBA, it goes both sides, because they're not only people concerned about police brutality, they're millionaires not willing to do the job they're paid to do). For starters, the Lakers (of course, Lebron walked out of the meeting after saying his piece, because he doesn't care about what anybody else has to say) and Clippers want the season to end. Every other team voted to re-schedule and keep playing. If that happens, this is totally empty. It's a statement, but one that will be quickly forgotten if they play again in three or four days. And no matter what happens, there's your break, because there's no unified front anymore. The Bucks started this and they want to keep playing, for fucks sake!

    And if finally, all the players decide to end the season, I'm sorry, but they're breaking their contracts. And should be punished by that. Because they want to get paid by their franchises when they sign their deals, but now they feel like they can do whatever the fuck they want. It also doesn't work that way. You break your contract, there's a price to pay. And the "failure to appear" provision on the operations manual doesn't work because you can't forfeit a playoff game if the other team doesn't want to play. Fines won't solve anything, either. In any case, it's a moot point, because the league is not going to do anything at all. That's how inoperative the NBA has become.


    This is a powerful statement. Also, it's the most stupid move NBA players could make. You can't make decisions like this, with so many consequences, in such an emotional state of mind. That's why people have lawyers to represent them in court, for example. They have plenty of options to make a statement, and they've decided to do it by breaking their contracts. You may say it doesn't matter in the current situation. It does. If I'm an NBA owner after this, I'm not signing another CBA with guaranteed deals never again. If we lose 10 seasons, it's their problem and their careers. NBA owners won't be out of a job because of that. We're now hearing a lot of support for them from the owners, but it's all PR, only to get them back playing in a few days. If this goes further, even into next season, it will get ugly.

    Everything has consequences. Acting quickly, in a rush, it's never advisable. There's a reason.
     
  20. Money

    Money NBA All-Star

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    BLM, Antifa, etc etc are not the ones burning shit down. Tons of evidence of right wing plants stirring up shit, vandalizing, burning shit etc...
    The second any of this happens all focus goes off the movement itself. Which is exactly why they do it.
    You make some good points TMC, but you don't live here. You don't see the same stuff we see. It's fucking ugly.
    People are not having any of it... None. Emotions might not be the best way to approach legal matters but it's what spurs movements.
     

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