Discussion in 'Know Your Enemy' started by Rob, Jan 31, 2019.
Where does that leave HB?
Wow! Man, the Knicks must think they have a legitimate chance at landing KD. This clears them to be able to add TWO max players in the offseason.
it was crazy to hear that a trade was requested and then almost immediately, it happened. of course, it must have been requested a while back.. but pretty crazy. I'm sure they feel like they will for sure pick up one big name, and that big name will help secure a 2nd.
Does the Unicorn play at the 3? or 3-4?
Holy f*ck, New York. Just when everybody thought you had a real, actual plan to build up a true contender, and the plan was all along to repeat what you've never been able to pull off, attract people by throwing money at them in the biggest market in the NBA.
Only that now the team doesn't have anything at all to entice anybody from a basketball standpoint. Lebron and Wade rejected to go there in 2011 because, even tho both loved the market, they thought the franchise wasn't ready... and it's in a far worse state right now.
Also, trading your best player of the last couple of decades in less than an hour since he told you he's worried about the state of the team and that he's not staying unless the team starts winning right away is not... I was gonna say it's not a good decision, but it's more than that. It's not a sane decision. Let me repeat: less than an hour. They didn't check the market for other possible deals, it just can't be done in an hour.
Worst deal of the century for the Knicks. And that's saying a lot. And if they get Zion in the draft and sign two max deals to two great free agents, it'll be worthy, but that's a different story. This deal is so retarded that Mills and Perry (and Dolan, not only for this) should be fired on the spot. You don't trade a guy like KP IN A FREAKING HOUR!!!!
Bada says they've got to be confident in signing KD... I say they're confident in signing someone, KD, Kyrie (I don't think they've got a chance at Kawhi, I think it's either Toronto or going to LA, most likely Clippers, for him)... I don't know, someone. Unless they've been tampering the hell out of those players, that is. But, honestly, I don't think that's the case. I think they just wanted to create cap space, and that now there's a real chance nobody is going to sign there because that's a barren roster at this point. Only if they get Zion in the draft their chances will improve a bit, but, honestly, who can trust this front office anymore?
3-4-5, pending on the situation.
But he hates playing the 5.
It is true that the Knicks are moron's, but this deal was in the works for at least 2 days. NY wanted to make Porzigis look like the bad guy, so they called a meeting today with him and his agent. Then he asked for a trade and the Knicks PR people jumped on it and they pushed the deal through.
As TMC stated, this deal will be judged by who they end up drafting and wether or not they can actually lure anyone good with the 2 max cap space spots.
Two days still ain't nothing. You gotta play GMs vs each other and get the best offer. This is peanuts for a player like Porzingis. I know they've been talking to other teams before the meeting (in fact, New Orleans told them they weren't interested in KP and fillers for AD, because they knew Porzingis wouldn't stay there), but the deal with Dallas took place in less than an hour since KP told them he wanted out.
They might have tried to make him look like the bad guy, but they look like the inept guys.
And the same can be said about New Orleans if they trade Davis right now. Wait until the summer, let Boston join the sweepstakes. Just don't move him now and wait til you can play teams vs each other. If AD ends up in Boston with Kyrie and Tatum, they not only will be a force, but there's a real chance nobody signs with the Lakers in that case...
GM's talk continually to other GM's about players. I am not saying this is a good deal or not a good deal, but the Knicks already know Porzingis' value around the league so this deal should not be evaluated based on time took. If their MAIN goal was to create cap space (which clearly it was) because they knew the players they could have gotten in return (while a very good player, he has shown no ability to stay healthy) would not have made them a contender, well, they did a great job in accomplishing that. The true measuring stick will be what they can do with those two max slots.
If they end up getting KD and Kryie (along with a great player from their high draft pick), I would say they are a WAY better team than they were yesterday. They also pick up two unprotected 1st round picks in the future so they will have 2 1st rounders for a couple of year to add young (cheap) players. However if they cant land true superstars and instead give max contracts to a couple of really good players but not superstars, then they are fucked for another 10 years.
Personally I would bet on Durant heading to NY this offseason.
I'm pretty sure Porzingis had a lot more value than that. This is a salary dump, a salary dump in which they used their franchise player in order to get out of Courtney Lee's and Hardaway's deals. It's an amazingly inept deal.
You just need to consider the deal from the other side. Does Dallas have any doubts about making this deal? Not a single one, it's a deal they simply have to make. There's nothing to consider on their side, because even if it doesn't work, they've lost two expirers, Dennis Smith Jr. (a young, exciting, not-exactly-developing-as-expected PG) and two first rounds picks in 2021 (not protected) and 2023 (top 10 protected, becomes a second round pick if not delivered by 2025).
So in the worst case scenario, NY doesn't even get those two first rounders... (although it's hard to envision a Doncic-led Dallas team, with an owner willing to spend money, having a top 10 pick three straight years from 2023 to 2025).
I think they could get a lot more value, they simply rushed and made a salary dump instead in order to have room for two max deals. And, with no certainty that someone is going to sign there, it's a recipe for disaster and terrible GMing.
Back to this season, if they get KD and Kyrie, they're a better team. A real contender, at least in the east. If that pick is Zion and he is all everybody expect him to be, they are set for several years and it'd be a matter of adding role players to their core.
If KD decides to stay, Kawhi signs with the Clippers or stays in Toronto and Kyrie remains a Celtic, the Knicks will have pulled the same nonsensical, stupid move they always do and will be in search of new people for the front office that can right this ship in another... 10 years or so, unless the NBA finds a way to "fire Dolan".
Yes, I know it is a salary dump. What I am saying is every GM talks with all other GM's all the time about their players. So they knew what sort of players they could get for Porzingas. It likely would be for a couple good players and a draft pick. But not a superstar. This would keep them in the zone of average mediocrity which is the worst place to be in the NBA. So instead, they are gambling and shooting for the stars. If they land two superstars, it was a great trade for them. One that instantly can change the course of the franchise. If they can land 2 superstars, it was a bad deal.
This was a deal where both teams got what they were searching for.
That's for sure.
I'm just saying there's no certainty that they'll be able to sign any of the stars that will be available this offseason. I think KD can sign there (I've always considered New York the main contender for KD), but not if he goes alone, particularly not now that the best player on their roster is gone. So somebody else has to join him there now. If nobody does, New York might have gone back a decade.
Also, I'm sure Porzingis was frustrated and wanted to either start winning or be traded to a team where he can win games and make the playoffs. But I don't believe he was going to reject the extension with the Knicks. It's a huge risk to not even sign your first big extension, particularly for a player that hasn't proven to be particularly durable. Another bad injury and his career could be over... I would have called his bluff now, it'd be different if we were talking about his second big contract.
One final consideration...
Now that the Knicks roster is absolute trash, if somebody wants to play in New York, I don't know why they wouldn't consider Brooklyn over the Knicks. Yes, it's not Manhattan and it's not the Garden, but at least Sean Marks has a plan to add talent to their roster.
Because right when KD is celebrating his next ring with us, I don't think he's gonna be thinking about how great next year will be playing alongside Allonzo Trier and Kevin Knox...
I don't think the New York decision has anything to do with who is on the roster. I think it has everything to do with the experience of playing and essentially living in New York. I don't think KD is a fit for New York, but i do see a chance that he would like to experience it. The only issue is, once you're in, you can't really turn back.
Same thing can be said about the 2011 free agency. They ended up with Amare Stoudamire signing their max deal. This year they might end up with Boogie signing that max deal... Plenty of great players have rejected to sign there as free agents because they don't trust how the franchise is being run.
And that's not changing. That's why I don't think a straight salary dump is a good plan for a franchise like the Knicks.
I kind of agree with you... especially if it were anywhere else... In their mind, this is NYC, so they got that going for them. Its a desired destination/market whether the Knicks are good or not. I mean they will be making promises and telling superstar players everything they want to hear. Whether they follow through is another story.
And that's why i think players will consider it regardless of the roster makeup. The Knicks are one place where a legit top 10 NBA player won't worry as much about the roster makeup.
I think it can be. But it can also be a place where good players go to die. Think Melo, Galinari, DLee, Porzingus... even Spre... it didn't kill their careers per se, but nothing good happened for them while with the Knicks... It went no where, and they left...
Again, what can the Knicks offer that Brooklyn can't? It's the same market, except for the Garden, and the Nets have been rebuilding the right way and have talented players on their roster.
Right now, I'm not sure why any free agent would consider the Knicks over Brooklyn. The Knicks only have the promise of a cap room and a shot at Zion, and by the time free agency comes, maybe not even that...
Another possibility I've been hearing lately is that New York is now in the AD sweepstakes. Porzingis told the Pelicans he wasn't going to stay in New Orleans, but the Knicks got picks they might be willing to send there.
Problem is, the Pelicans won't make a deal now (in this scenario, that is... who knows what they're thinking). They'll wait for the draft and, if the Knicks get Zion, they'd be willing to trade Davis there for Zion, picks and fillers.
It's all a conspiracy theory, of course, and one that only works if they get Zion or if New Orleans likes the Knicks rookie more than any other deals... but if the Knicks end up with Davis, KD and more another top player (Kyrie or whoever), that would more than justify the deal.
Still think it's a bad deal, because it's all so far-fetched that they might not be able to sign anybody.
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