Oakland Raiders Thread

Discussion in 'NFL' started by KC, Jul 20, 2010.

  1. bada

    bada Administrator Staff Member

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    Madballers, looks like Raiders/Seahawks will play next year in London.... Roadtrip? :D
     
  2. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Do it! WRT meet up in London! :cool:
     
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  3. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    That would be awesome, but no way I could spend that much on our vacation budget on a trip without me wife.
     
  4. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Doug Martin is a Raider. Good luck with him, guys. Has a lot of talent, but you never know what Doug Martin are you going to get. Still, should be a pretty interesting signing, pending on the numbers, but I doubt he's going to make a lot of money.
     
  5. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Crabtree released, and Jordy Nelson is a Raider. Free agency moves that fast.
     
  6. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    Very excited about Jordy! Not disappointed to see Crabtree gone...he pissed me off last season

    Doug Martin doesn't do much for me, but hopefully he helps the running game.
     
  7. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    One thing that would worry me... Gruden is going for vets that have been playing at a high level for quite some time. That got him fired by the Bucs.

    Then again, he never had a QB like Carr back then. I'm just saying it's the same MO.
     
  8. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    I hear what you are saying. I would also mention that the Bucs have not made the playoffs since they fired Gruden, so maybe they should have kept him?
     
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  9. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Definitely... :D

    But he probably shouldn't have gone for so many vets. That's what led to several 9-7 seasons that included a couple of trips to the playoffs as wildcards, but the team never was a contender since they won the SB. Those guys were good, but declining. Problem is, the youth movement we took after firing him was even worse, drafting the wrong players time after time...

    Don't get me wrong, I like Gruden and I think he's got a better chance in Oakland than he had with those Bucs teams. The Bucs defense was far better, but aging, and he never had a QB like Carr. The Raiders should be a contender once again.

    And I really like Rashaan Melvin's signing. He can be a good #2 CB opposite Conley.

    I probably would have kept Crabtree, tho... I've got the feeling they're going to miss him a lot.
     
  10. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Btw, Clinton McDonald is visiting the Raiders. Great teammate and good pass rusher from the inside, not great vs the run, tho, and that's why the Bucs wen twith Beau Allen (who has more or less the opposite skillset).

    Also, the Raiders have signed Andrew DePaola, former Bucs long snapper. And Rashaan Melvin also is a former Buc.

    Someone, please, tell Gruden he can sign non-former Bucs as well. It's alright if they haven't played for Tampa. In fact, it might not be a bad idea at all...
     
  11. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Yesterday I forgot one of the Raiders signings. Tahir Whitehead is a Raider, 3 years, $6 million. And it's a deal I really like, a bit of a bargain as well. Whitehead is really good in run support. Not great at coverage, but he's certainly an improvement for the Raiders, as their LB corps were... pedestrian, to say the least.
     
  12. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    Despite jabs from Bada, and TMC, I am very happy with the Raiders moves so far. I love all the trades, and while I want to see a LB and CB taken in the 4th and 5th rounds tomorrow. Nothing wrong with picking guy's in the trenches. 2 OT's and 2 DT's is a good start for now and the future. Trading for Bryant in my mind, is a fantastic move. Having 3 very good WR's will stretch the D and open up all kinds of holes for the running game and TE's.
     
  13. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    What jabs? I just said that Kolton Miller is a bit of a project and might not be ready to be a starter yet, but he's got a lot of talent and a high ceiling.

    I also really like PJ Hall, who should help right away, and Arden Key has a lot of talent, although there are other issues with him. Brandon Parker is, at least, good for depth. And Martavys for a third is about right.

    So not shocking, franchise-defining moves, but did alright with what they had, improving their team. Probably need to add a LB and some secondary help, but so far, so good.
     
  14. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Great pick with Mo Hurst in the fifth. First round talent, hope his heart condition is not serious enough and lets him continue his career. In that case, it's a huge value pick.

    Also like Nick Nelson, solid choice in the 4th. Should compete for playing time.
     
  15. bada

    bada Administrator Staff Member

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    Sorry Madballers, I just had to live it first hand for so many years. Cable is the worst evaluator ever... and then cant coach the guys worth shit. He picks the same type of guys and they never pan out... they are never even serviceable. During Cable's 6 years in Seattle, NO TEAM in the league spent most 1st through 3rd round picks on offensive lineman and after all that, they have the worst offensive line in the league by far. Every single one of them "were guys Tom had to have".
     
  16. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm sorry, Madballers, but the Raiders are insane and deserve whatever bad things come out of this idiotic trade.

    Khalil Mack is a Bear. It involves a ton of picks, but ultimately, a player that shouldn't have seen free agency in his prime for no valid reason, was available in the market and is now in Chicago. And the Raiders have f*cked up their current situation, losing a top 3 defensive player (arguably, but certainly no less than top 5) for picks, while pissing off their star QB with this deal, because now their defense is in shambles, and may remain that way if they don't hit on those picks (and knowing Gruden, they might use them on offense and not even play the kids for a couple of years).

    I liked the job Reggie was doing with the Raiders, but this trade is insane. You just don't trade a DPOY in his prime, under no circumstances. Look how long it took the Bears to sign him to an extension, he might not even left the airport before it was signed. It's a six-year, $141 million extension, which sets the market one day after Aaron Donald set the market with his own extension. But guess what? That's how negotiating in the NFL works, it took Donald two years, but the Rams signed him, never thought about trading him. Every elite player holds out, and they all get what they want, eventually (except for Bell, but that's more related to the position he plays than anything else).

    The Raiders told teams for weeks that Mack wasn't available. Then, all of a sudden, Donald signs and Mack's demands are not that unreasonable, so he's suddenly available. That's how the story went. And now Mack, who is a generational talent, is in Chicago and will be a Bear for the long term.

    There's another subtext to these moves: The Bears are telling everybody that they're ready to compete, that they want to win now, that window is suddenly open (we'll see if they do it, but that's the message), while the Raiders are saying the exact opposite. And players, agents and everybody involved in the NFL realize that.

    Once again, I'm sorry Madballers, but the Raiders are doing everything they can to not stay relevant the last few years they have in Oakland.


    As for the trade itself, the Bears get Mack, the Raiders 2020 second round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth round pick, while Oakland will get the Bears' first rounders in 2019 and 2020, a 2019 sixth round pick and a 2020 third round pick. So, basically, two first rounders and a downgrade of positions on the other picks. And, if the Khalil Mack experiment and the new offense work in Chicago, those might not be high picks. And if the Raiders are bad, the second round pick they just traded might be a high one.


    Meanwhile, the Raiders have traded a 2019 fifth round pick for AJ McCarron, who happens to be an adequate backup QB. Price is about right in this case. But it's the kind of move that, if everything goes right, won't matter at all, because Carr is the starter and McCarron shouldn't play a single meaningful snap. It's good to have him, but will only matter in case the Raiders lose their starter. And McCarron isn't that good, imho, just a decent backup, but you're f*cked if he has to carry your team.



    I think these moves show that Reggie has lost some control to Gruden, who signed a 10-year deal, and is playing the long game. He's betting on reloading his team down the road, having a poor defense for a few years and drafting young kids to develop (except he's never been able to develop anybody because he won't play rookies, but that's a different matter) and not having any pressure on his job for a few years, because the team is worse than it was and the Raiders are building for the future.

    I think it's a historically inept deal by the Raiders. But it can be salvaged. They just have to hit on thos picks and get two players that can not only contribute, but become starters and somewhat dominant at their respective positions (no, I'm not asking them to be DPOY or anything like that, but they can't just be average starters if they want to salvage anything out of this trade). But considering Gruden's record on the draft, I wouldn't bet on that. Draft capital is overrated (because GMs love great players under rookie deals), anyway, just look at the Browns...
     
  17. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    Very well thought out post TMC.

    This weekend was though to be a Raiders fan for sure! I am pissed about wasting that 3rd round pick on Martavis Bryant and then cutting him b/c he is a dumbass...what a waste.

    As for Mack, I am extremely disappointed that he is no longer a Raider, but I do understand the Raiders point of view. I do not feel that a team can keep enough talent and depth with 1 defensive player taking up that kind of cap space. With the Rams, it makes more sense as Goff is on his rookie deal, and so is the Bears QB. Only time will tell: Will the Raiders Defense be horrible this season without Mack? I do not think so, I have seen great things from there 3 rookie Defensive lineman in camp and the pre season. They will certainly be worse than if they had Mack, but I think (hope) they can be a decent defense. With the talent on offense and Gruden's play calling, I believe they can contend for a playoff spot.

    The real kicker will be what they do with the draft picks, and it will be a while before this get figured out. One thing for sure is that I do not want Reggie involved in any more picks. I think he will be gone next season as he has been possibly the worst drafter from 2015-2018.
     
  18. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Just one thing to add... the "he's gonna take too much of our cap space" point is a falacy. The cap is going up every year, and at this point, Mack's extension with the Bears takes only a 10% of the team's cap. There's more than enough room to add another big contract (Carr's, in Oakland's case) and to fill the roster with lesser, but talented players. Other teams are doing it and will keep doing it, as the Rams will soon extend Goff (in one or two years, I think it'll be done sooner rather than later). They'll have to let go other players, granted (like Talib and Suh), but, unless chemistry is f*cked up, I think they'll find a way to keep Donald, Goff and Peters (and they have Gurley and Cooks signed long term as well), and still will have enough room to have a few more middle-level starters.

    I just think Gruden doesn't want to pay a defensive player that amount. In his mind, no player should be making anything close to what a good starting QB makes. And that's the only story here.
     
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  19. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    I feel the same way, there should be a rule that QB's set the salary bar and all other players make less than them.
     
  20. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Did Gruden just say that it was obvious that Mack left because he didn't want to play in Oakland? Really? He's already shifting the blame to him?

    I'm sorry, MadBallers, but this ain't gonna end well. Great message you're sending to the rest of your roster. Week one and he may already have lost the team.

    And what's worse, the Raiders won't be able to fire him for a looooong time, not with the contract he signed...
     

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