How About an NFC South thread?

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Tarantism, Jul 20, 2010.

  1. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, it didn't take long for Arians to clarify the backfield status. I LOVE Arians because he's a no-nonsense kind of guy. Maybe too much. He's gonna answer with the truth, or tell you he knows the answer but can't tell you, but he's never gonna bullshit you. At least that's what happened since arrived in Tampa. And I love that kind of guy.

    So, back to topic, he just said that RoJo remains the starter, McCoy is going to make the team and be a third-down back and Fournette is insurance in case RoJo sucks during the season. Fournette will start practicing next Tuesday, due to COVID protocols, and that he expects him to be ready to face New England in week 1, although still unsure of his role.

    We've released Kyle Love to make room for Fournette.

    From what he has said, we're most likely keeping just 4 backs on our roster. I'm starting to think Ogunbowale is going to make it (decent back, good hands and great on special teams, as I said above... that's enough if I know Arians) and Vaughn is going to be the one that doesn't make the cut. Hope he clears waivers and makes the practice squad, even if only because he was a third-round pick!!!!
     
  2. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    Are there any guarantees on Fournette's contract? The guy is a total dick, and I would not be surprised if he is out of shape. Wouldnt shock me if they cut him at some point during season.
     
  3. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Nah, it's a one-year, prove-it deal. If he stirs up trouble, he's gone. He's gonna make more money from the Jags if he wins his grievance than in this Bucs contract.

    Reading everything Arians has said, I think I've got a clearer image of what's going on. Fournette is depth. Vaughn has sucked badly in camp and Arians doesn't trust him. And he needed a downhill runner. That's why Fournette has been signed. If he can add something else, great. If he wins a starting job, great. But he's here for depth because our third-round rookie is probably not even making the team.

    If that's the case, no surprise here. Let's remember Litch is pretty good with first-rounders, but his picks really are a lottery in later rounds. So that's his (involuntary) MO. We've cut several second and third-rounders before their rookie contracts ended (one this year with MJ Stewart), drafted a kicker in the second-round that sucked badly, drafted a good player like Beckwith in the third that is already retired at 25, and so on...
     
  4. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Woah, Matt Gay cut by the Bucs. Totally unexpected.

    For those of you that don't know (and you don't have to), Matt Gay was our kicker last year, and it matters because he was a rookie after Litch took him in the fifth round. Gay had a decent season, not great, because he missed several extra points and had an awful last game of the season going 0-3. But he did alright most of the season, and he has GREAT leg strenght. Another point to consider is that we had two kickers heading into camp, Elliott Fry, cut early this week, and Gay. We signed Succop to replace Fry. And he's won the job in, what, three days? Kinda surprising...

    Although the thing that irks me most is that we've had to cut another draft pick after just one f*cking season. If the Bucs have been awful for years is because most of our picks outside the first are hit-and-miss. That ain't changing.

    Succop is a vet and has proven he can be reliable, although he missed most of last season injured and was just 1-6 in the 6 games he played. Probably due to his injury, because that had never happened to him. Let's hope that's the case and he's fully healthy.

    Time to get kicking right, because bad kicking has been costing this team 2 or 3 games PER SEASON, since Matt Bryant left town.

    Also, as always, I was wrong and Dare Ogumbowale has been cut. Which is also surprising because he's had a much better camp than Vaughn...
     
  5. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Alright, our first roster is set. A few points:

    - I still don't know why we keep carrying Ryan Griffin as our third QB year after year. Five seasons already. And has played a few snaps of one game in five years. Yeah, he knows the book (the books of the last three or four coaches, at least), but seems to me we're wasting a spot, year after year.

    - The team decided to keep Vaughn due to his "untapped potential" and because he started training camp late due to a covid contact. Ogumbowale beat him in training camp, but the team wasn't sure Vaughn was going to make it to practice squad, so they decided to keep him. Dare Ogumbowale is a good player and great in special teams, hope he makes it to some other roster or gets back to our practice squad, because we could use him during the season. It's a shame, because I'm sure Vaughn only go to keep his roster spot because of the optics of cutting a third round pick right away. That's how unimpressive he's been in camp. He was a bad pick in the third, and has done nothing to prove otherwise (I'm saying so because Zack Moss was available, for example, and the Bills have been very happy with him in camp).

    - We're carrying seven WRs. Not sure what Hurst or Mickens have done to deserve a roster spot, tho, although Hurst is going to IR to open a spot once Fournette signs. But even six is a lot of WRs for this team.

    - Tanner Hudson was cut. You might have never heard of him, but he's a TE with GREAT hands. Blocking is an issue, tho, which is why Antony Auclair kept the last TE roster spot. But a team in need of a pass-catching TE would do well to pick him up.

    - A.Q. Shipley was a surprising cut as well, but I guess they count on him being available to add depth in the future, as a vet.

    - On defense, we don't have much depth in the d-line. Not sure why Patrick O'Connor made the team.

    - On the LB corps, we wasted yet another pick, as Chapelle Russell didn't make the team. And anybody could have guessed that. It was a weird pick when they took him, and he looked so raw in camp that there was no way he could make the team over other guys. It was only a seventh-round pick, so no surprise here. On the other side, Cam Gill made the team after signing as an undrafted free agent. He was pretty good, although needs time to develop. But showed enough promise in camp. I'm happy they decided to keep him.

    - Also happy to see Parnell Motley making the team after going undrafted. Motley has had the best camp of any undrafted signing I've seen since I'm following the Bucs, making big play after big play. He should be our 4th WR and get playing time. Has been the biggest positive surprise of camp. A real impressive achievement for a guy that has average athleticism, wasn't invited to the combine, went undrafted, had no OTAs and no preseason games. So happy to see him making the team.

    - Justin Evans goes to PUP list. Not sure he'll ever play again. When a player gets a freak injury, the Bucs are putting them a couple of years on PUP list in order to pay for his recovery and help them before cutting them, they cut Beckwith this season and seems like Evans is going that way as well.

    Also, the other Evans, Mike Evans, has restructured his deal in order to free up $9 million. Maybe the Bucs are thinking about signing someone cut from other teams using that money...

    In any case, this is the most talented roster the Bucs have had in years. We should be a contender as long as Brady remains healthy. And I think our defense, despite the lack of depth up front, can surprise people and be at least decent.

    Can't wait for the season to start!
     
  6. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    So... we've signed Josh Rosen to our practice squad team. From #10 overall pick in Arizona, to a starter in Miami that lost his job to Fitzpatrick to the Bucs practice squad.

    I was never sold in Rosen, but that trip is pretty unheard of for a first-round QB.

    Maybe he'll have a ten-year career replacing Ryan Griffin as our third QB...
     
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  7. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    Has a 1st round QB ever been on a practice squad? And would he even make the squad in a regular year when the number is 5 players instead of the 10 for Covid season.
     
  8. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    It's so weird what has happened to Rosen.

    And from what I've read, the problem with him is he hasn't been able to adapt well to the NLF speed, because his arm and accuracy are pretty good, according to his former coaches.
     
  9. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Alright, some quick thoughts about the Bucs first game in the Brady era. We started losing in New Orleans, but not everything was bad. Let's go.

    The Good:

    - Brady. Yeah, he threw 2 INTs (both on him, and the pick 6 was particularly bad), but he was in control more often than not, poised and the accuracy was unheard of in Tampa. We had more positives than negatives in his first game, and coming to a new team, new system, new teammates and with no preseason games to get up to speed is never easy. I'm somewhat happy with his first game.
    - Scotty Miller. Was an afterthought last season, but seems he might have taken a step forward and sits solidly as our third WR. Speed was always there, so if he can play and catch at NFL level, he's going to be a big help.
    - Tristan Wirfs. Rookie RT with no preseason playing his first NFL game, and was able to keep Cam Jordan under control for the whole game. Jordan only beat him once. Extremely happy with his performance.
    - The defense. Jamel Dean had a brain fart that led to a big play, but the defense, particularly the secondary and our LB pair of Devin White and Lavonte David, played a GREAT game vs a very good offense like New Orleans. Also really happy about their performance.

    The Bad:

    - The running game. RoJo's numbers weren't awful, but if you take away a run of 21 yards, there were pretty pedestrian. Fournette had 5 carries and Leftwich decided it would be alright if all of them were outside runs (hint: NEVER do that to a player like Fournette). Our running game wasn't good, but playcalling and the o-line didn't help at all.
    - The O-Line. Wirfs and Marpet were great, the line as a whole wasn't. And we're paying a ton of money to those guys. They were awful blocking in running plays and just slightly better in passing downs.
    - Playcalling. Probably because we had Sean Payton in front of us, but Leftwich's playcalling wasn't good. Too conservative (mostly trying to run in the first half, which is not what a team with Brady, Mike Evans, albeit injured, and Godwin has to do), bad selection of plays (see Fournette's runs)... maybe it was because we're just starting the season, but playcalling has to improve. A lot.
    - Penalties. Discipline has been a long-time issue for this team, it seems.

    The ugly:

    - Donovan Smith is going to get Brady killed. Smith, our LT, was AWFUL the whole game. And we can't expect Brady to run for his life and throw under pressure the whole time. Smith is also paid like a top 10 LT, so something has to happen, he either improves or we should replace him asap. We also have Ryan Jensen paid like a top 5 center, but at least Jense is a useful player. Overpaid, but you can live with him in the middle. You can't expect to win with Smith playing as he did.
    - Special teams. Except for our punter, Pinion, who has a cannon in his leg, but our special teams unit was a disaster waiting to happen whenever they were on the field.


    Next week, Carolina. And, if we don't win, it will be time to start getting a bit worried. Not after this game, tho.
     
  10. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    So we're pretty banged up vs the Panthers. Godwin is out after spending the whole week in the concussion protocol and not testing well yesterday, Mike Evan played hurt vs New Orleans and seems that's going to happen again this week, Donovan Smith also has been limited in practice...

    Our top 3 WRs for the week are Evans (nursing a hamstring injury), Scotty Miller and Justin Watson. Don't be surprised if we have more passed thrown to our TEs than our WRs this week.
     
  11. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Alright, a quick recap of the Bucs game!

    - Brady was much more comfortable, making less mistakes, driving the team down the field for several scores (only had one passing TD, although McCoy dropped one in the red zone)... still had a dumb interception and, at this point, I guess that comes with the territory of playing QB for the Bucs. In short, his first half was great, the second half not so good (probably because Leftwich went conservative with the playcalling, I'm sure that played a part). Still able to move the team down the field and set up several score opportunities, so it wasn't a bad outing at all, but he's not yet at the level we expected.

    - The running game... one has to wonder how long will it take for Fournette to take RoJo's starting job. Leftwich stopped trying to make Fournette run outside, and he had a great game, scoring two TDs and being able to move the chains at will. RoJo had a TD, but wasn't able to get much going for most of the game and had yet another fumble that ended up being a turnover, one of his problems since he was drafted. He's the starter, but Fournette is playing so much better than that can change at any moment. McCoy wasn't able to run for sh*t, but helped on the passing game (except for that TD pass he dropped).

    - Mike Evans looked much better than last season, with another +100 yards game (25 already in his career), another TD (50 in his career, most in Bucs history) and being reliable all game long. And still looks like he's not 100% healthy... Justin Watson took the step forward we needed and helped Evans with 48 more yards. I really like Watson, he's got good body control and great hands, although he lacks speed, but he's reliable if you're not looking for big plays. Scotty Miller was a no-show, tho, along with our TEs. Thankfully, McCoy and Fournette helped a lot on the passing game.

    - O-line play was better. Not spectacular, but better. Smith in particular wasn't beaten as often, and that was a big help.

    - And then we come to the defense, which right now is the heart and soul of this team. The team is flying all over the field, particularly Devin White (15 tackles) and the rookie Antoine Winfield Jr. (11 tackles, a sack and a fumble forced). Suh had two sacks and Gholston and JPP had another each. Carlton Davis and Jordan Whitehead also had good games. The defense was GREAT in the first half and a little less great (we allowed a ton of yards in the second, although they were solid in the red zone) in the second, but overall it looked really good. That's big, because historically the Bucs have been as good as their defense.

    - Ryan Succop was perfect for the day. Can't remember the last time a Bucs kicker scored every chance he had.

    - The team did much better on penalties. We almost looked like a pro team. Go figure...

    In short, we're still developing our identity as a team and trying to put things together. The team has to keep improving, and on offense they did from last week. The defense was good, although I think they had a better game vs New Orleans. There's a lot of upside for both units yet and I think the best is yet to come. Also, we need to involve our TEs more. It makes no sense to have Gronk, Brate and OJ Howard if we're not going to use them. Gronk has been a non-factor so far, but he's not going anywhere, and if Brady is not going to use Brate and OJ Howard, maybe we should look at trading one of them.
     
  12. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Alright, as always, a quick recap of the Bucs game:

    - First, it was our first win in Denver since 1993. Granted, we don't play the Broncos often, and half of those games have been at the RayJay, but still, it's a lot of time since the last one... Also, Denver has been ravaged by injuries, let's keep that in mind.

    - Brady was looking more comfortable out there, spreading passes all over the offense. Godwin, OJ Howard, Scotty Miller, Gronk, McCoy, Rojo... everybody got their share. It's weird how Mike Evans only had four targets, catching two, both TDs. But hey, the passing game looked good enough, and we got our TEs more involved (which should be natural for an offense with the best TE corps in the NFL). Brady also had a couple of big plays to Miller and Howard, for those that keep talking about his arm strength at his age. Overall, he had a great first half and an effective second half. Good game by Tom. That's why he signed here.

    - The running game wasn't so good. In fact, we struggled so much that it would have been non-existent if not for a couple of big plays by RoJo. Fournette did nothing. Protection was an issue here, as the o-line played much better on passing downs.

    - The defense was the heart and soul of the Bucs, kinda like the old days. They were flying all over the field, getting to Denver's QB often (six sacks) and allowing just a couple of big plays in the whole game. Denver also wasn't able to run the ball much. All that explains why the Broncos ended the game averaging 3.8 yards per play. Let's go into detail.

    - Shaq Barrett had been somewhat quiet the first two weeks. Not yesterday, with two sacks and a pretty complete performance. Add another sack by JPP and Vita Vea (whose main job was to stop the run, and he did that perfectly). The line had a great game.

    - And the secondary was really good, too. Winfield and Whitehead both got a sack. Mike Edwards had an INT. Sean Murphy-Bunting almost had another INT. The defense was all over the field.

    - Let's finish with the LBs, where White was solid, as always, and Lavonte David, free to make big plays knowing White is by his side, got another INT (thanks to a good pressure on the QB by Anthony Nelson). Both guys didn't shine as much as in previous weeks, but did a good job.

    - We've got to be more careful with the penalties. I've been saying so the whole season, and the first one was good, with only a couple of penalties called against the Bucs, but we had SEVEN in the second half.

    - And, finally, the special teams, where Pat O'Connor had a huge play by blocking and recovering a punt at the 10-yard line. I'm not sure our special teams are good enough, but O'Connor was great.


    So far, so good. These Bucs look good, still have to beat a great team, but the offense is evolving nicely and the defense is looking like the defense of old, and the Bucs have only been successful when the defense has carried the team. Looking good so far.
     
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  13. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Alright, here's my weekly recap of the Bucs game. Let's start by saying any other Bucs season, we've lost this game by the second quarter. So glad we're not the Fuckaneers anymore... At least for now.

    The good:

    - Brady. Had one bad INT in the first half. The rest of the game was amazing. 5 TDs, hitting multiple receivers, converting big plays to OJ Howard, Evans and Scotty Miller, throwing great under pressure. Can't ask for more.

    - The running game. Fournette was out, McCoy can't run anymore, Vaughn had his first experience running in the NFL (wasn't good, even tho he ended up scoring a great TD on a passing play)... but RoJo was great. He didn't score, but made multiple big plays, including one last run that iced the game.

    - The O-line. Good overall. Opened some lanes that RoJo could use and managed to protect Brady for most of the game (no sacks by the Chargers). He still had to throw under pressure several times, tho, but pass protection definitely improved from previous games.

    - The D-Line and LBs. You can't run against Tampa.

    - Bradley Pinion. You don't know him because he's the punter, but he's one of the best of the NFL. Two more punts inside the 20.

    - Mike Evans. He's finally healthy, or mostly healthy, and it shows.

    - Talking about receiving threats, Scotty Miller is a bullet, able to beat almost everybody on pure speed. And Brady has realized you can't cover OJ Howard. Godwin was out, and our team still had plenty of weapons.

    - The TD at the end of the second quarter after recovering a fumble was huge. If not, I doubt we could have come back.

    The bad:

    - Our secondary. Gave up sooo many big plays... Carlton Davis redeemed himself with a huge INT that sealed our win, but it was ridiculous. He did a good job on Keenan Allen, tho, but the rest of the secondary was awful, except for a few isolated plays.

    - Succop. Made a huge kick at the end of the game, but missed an easy one early. It's just one game, tho, so far he's been better than our previous kickers.


    One last note, I liked Herbert, and I didn't expect to like him. He has a good arm, is confident and looked poised in the pocket. Good for the Chargers.
     
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  14. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, shit. OJ Howard was having his best season as a pro and it's over because of a ruptured Achilles. Fuck.

    Guess keeping Gronk, Howard, Brate and Hudson is going to pay out. At least, we were extremely deep at TE.

    Mike Evans was also injured yesterday but seems he'll be fine on Thursday against the Bears. It doesn't look like Godwin is going to be available, tho.
     
  15. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Injuries piling up for the game vs the Bears. A short week ain't helping.

    Howard is out for the season, Godwin, McCoy and Justin Watson are out for the game. Fournette is going to be a game-time decision. Mike Evans and Scotty Miller are banged up (although likely to play). Kenjon Barner starts his four-games suspension.

    Problem is, all these injuries are happening to the skill positions of our offense. That means we're without two of our top 4 receiving threats, with the other two banged up, and if Fournette can go, we only have RoJo as a reliable back, because Vaughn hasn't proven anything just yet (despite his TD last Sunday, but he's run like shit, hope that changes), and we couldn't sign anybody because he wouldn't clear the NFL protocols in time for the game due to the short week.

    Only good news is that the O-line has played really well the last couple of weeks. Donovan Smith was the weak link, but he's playing better lately. And Wirfs looks like an All-Pro already.
     
  16. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Quick thoughts about the Bucs game, and keep in mind this time I've seen only highlights due to the weekday game:

    - It was, mostly, an ugly performance. But I've got the feeling this game would have been an easy win if we had been healthy. Losing so many guys on skill positions really hurt our offense. Hope we can have them all back (minus Howard, that is) by next week's game vs the Packers. For once, I think having the bye week on week 13 is not going to be so great for the Bucs. We could have used that break sooner in order to get healthy.

    - Happy to see Tyler Johnson getting some playtime and make some big plays in the first half. I was really happy we got to draft him in the fifth round and I think he's got the potential to develop into a good WR in the NFL. Still, the Bears shut him down for the whole second half. Evans played and got another TD, but you can see he's not healthy.

    Meanwhile, Ke'Shawn Vaughn needs to get his shit together. He scored a nice TD last week, but if he's not able to run and keeps fumbling, he's gonna be out of a job soon.

    - RoJo with his second straight +100 yards game. Good.

    - I talked about the O-Line being finally good... just for them to allow three sacks and eight QB hits. Smith was particularly bad, again, and Jensen keeps getting into fights for no reason at all. Wirfs wasn't as great, but hey, he had Mack in front of him, and that's not an easy assignment for a rookie.

    - Ryan Succop was great today.

    - The D-line keeps looking good. Can't run against the Bucs, Vita Vea got his second sack of the season, Gholston too (and that was totally unexpected at this point of his career). The Bears were able to keep Shaq Barrett under control, but that allowed JPP more space to roam and get to the QB. If anything, Gholston was the only one beating their man consistently in the first half, the second half was better overall.

    Also, Vea had to leave the game. If we start losing key guys on defense too, our season will be over soon.

    - Can't win 13-0 at the two minute warning and lose 14-13 at the half. That just can't happen to good teams.

    - Our secondary needs to get to the level of play of their first three games. Last week was awful and, albeit they were better this week, they gave up too many plays. Carlton Davis is developing into a really nice CB, tho. Jamel Dean improved a lot on this game, tho.

    - Brady wasn't great, but I'm not gonna hold this against him, with half his weapons sidelined and the O-Line not playing their best to protect him. It's interesting that we sucked in the red zone, something we had been pretty good at in previous games.

    - Penalties. Once again. Like in every game the Bucs play. +100 yards on penalties are too-fucking-much.


    In short, I think this was a very winnable game that we lost due to o-line poor play and lack of important guys due to injuries. Next week we have a very important game, because it's not going to be the same heading into the rest of the season going 4-2 or 3-3, particularly with the next two games being on the road.


    And, once again, injuries are killing us. Vea really was in a lot of pain. Hope is not as serious as it looked, because we can't afford to lose any more key guys to injuries.
     
  17. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    With all do respect to your Bucs TMC, Tom Brady is a punk ass! He did not know it was 4th down, and then was pissed, ran into the locker room, and chastised his teammates. He showed poor sportsmanship, by not shaking Foles hand at the end of the game.
     
  18. TMC

    TMC Administrator Staff Member

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    Didn't see that. I'm not doubting that's what happened, but I've only seen highlights. Weekday games are the worst for me.

    If that's what happened, he f*cked up. He might be the best QB ever, but he's not beyond reproach. You lose a game, even if it's one you expected to win, you can be pissed, but you've got to know how to lose.


    In even more bad news, the team got results on Vita Vea's MRI and he's going to miss the rest of the season. Fuck injuries. Losing OJ Howard was bad, but we had depth at TE. Nobody on this roster can replace Vea. He was the one guy our d-line couldn't afford to lose. I'm not going to say our season's over, but I'm afraid it is. At least the contender part. I thought we could be contenders, now our ceiling is making the playoffs and go out in the wildcard round.
     
  19. MadBallers

    MadBallers NBA All-Star

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    I didn't mean to rain on your parade TMC. As long as the Bucs have Brady, they will be a contender. Sorry to hear about your stud D lineman being out for the year...that sucks.

    As a Raider fan for about 45 years now, I know what it's like to think your team finaly turned the corner, and then have the rug pulled out from under u. I still think Tampa will be tough, a playoff team for sure, barring additional injuries. The Raiders on the other hand, probably 7-9, maybe 8-8, no playoffs.
     
  20. xbay

    xbay NBA 1st Team All Pro Staff Member

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    In the NFC this year, 9-7 probably gets you in. So can’t fret too hard. It doesn’t look like the NFC East will manufacture a wild card team. Still early to tell who will be in the hunt. But the way injuries and COVID have impacted teams, that’s how the NFC looks like it is headed. And my guess is if numbers don’t spike during flu season, stadiums that currently have no live audience will be able host at maybe 10% capacity in January... so there will never be a true home field advantage other than playing on your own turf. And that’s anyone’s ball game. So just get in. And anyone can make a ruckus.
     

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